Re: Tactica: Dark Elves in 8th edition I have not read the rulebook yet but only read the rumors. From what I understand even if you give Witch Elves a frontage of 10, those models in the subsequent ranks can only have 1 attack ever.
Pls enlighten me if I am wrong. If this is true, there is no point getting a horde bonus for our elite infantry. Regarding the comment on crossbowmen, I agree and have commented in a few other threads. This is a strong center for the darkelf army. Last edited by Darkspear; at Originally Posted by Darkspear.
I have not read the rulebook yet but only read the rumors. Re: Tactica: Dark Elves in 8th edition Ive now played 5 games with the new rules. I havent used the horde Rule, though have used it against me, i Just think our units are too expensive for it. Shadow magic on our wizards is a game changer and about the only way i was not just completely obliterated by the chaos player i faced, he still won though. Ive played against wood elves twice, and they got hit pretty hard.
All in all i think our guys need help, we have a very hard time taking the hits back. Im not too sure about the knights now, they havent done anything in the games ive played.
Black guard are still winners but the ASF banner is only needed against high elves. Corsairs i continue to love and they pump out even more attacks now I know not what people like. One game i played with hydra was pretty disgusting, its thunder stomp just adds even more brutality.
Finally Dark Riders are still pretty much winners, though i might add a standard to them. Dark spear - anything not in base contact with the enemy is limited to one attack, ignoring special rules like frenzy and add.
Monstrous infantry are granted three attacks in the extra rank. Originally Posted by Tyrannus. Re: Tactica: Dark Elves in 8th edition Which he actually said in the part you just quoted Originally Posted by Falkman. Yes, please. Spearelves are very nice now, and cheap. I don't think I'll use them in horde formation though, but all my infantry blocks Spearelves, Witch Elves, Black Guard, even Crossbow-elves, and probably Executioners will be backed up by either one or two cauldrons.
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Welcome to the Vault! The Dreadlord already has WS7, and thus this isn't that great when you could bump up his Strength or even his Attacks. Could be good, could be great in a tailored list. Spellthieving Sword: For each wound a caster receives from this weapon, they lose a random spell. Generally speaking facing a wizard in close combat means a dead wizard. It can really shine on an Assassin if they can take it.
Otherwise, not really worth it. Ever since the 8th edition Dark Elves army book this is useless. Berserker Sword: Bearer has Frenzy and cannot lose it. Gold Sigil Sword: Makes your attacks 10 Initiative in close combat. Maybe for a cheap buff if you have the points to spare. Not worth your time. Shrieking Blade: Bearer causes Fear.
Unnecessary as characters can just take a fear-causing mount, and most would need a weapon to help them kill things. Sorceresses and the lord version can get some mileage from this if they have to be on foot.
Tormentor Sword: Grants Stupidity to a monster or character hit by it. Only really useful against armies loaded up on those options, so it's a tailoring list option that's questionable otherwise. Warrior Bane: Whatever gets hit by it loses an Attack to a minimum of one. Not a bad selection and a cheaper way to get heavy armour with a nice benefit. Just no, you're Toughness 3, nobody has problems wounding you, focus on armour and wards, not whatever the hell you think you can pull off, and it costs 50 points.
Just no. Redundant when any Dark Elf character who needs it can get the same from mundane means for much less points. A good all-comers choice. Your character will dominate challenges. Nice if that's your plan or if challenges are your fear. Glittering Scales: Light Armor, causes -1 to hit the wearer in close combat. Surprisingly good. Pair it with the Sea Dragon Cloak and you have nothing to fear from ranged combat.
Not bad if you think you'll face it. Combines well with a Sea Dragon Cloak and good for Masters. Enchanted Shield: It's a shield, it grants 2 armor instead of the 1 armor a normal shield gives.
It's a great option. Not bad, not great. Very nice option, but it limits your offensive choices due to its 45 point cost. Obsidian Lodestone: Magic Resistance 3. Pricry, though it has potential. Dawnstone: Re-roll failed Armor Saves. Not bad as a way of finishing off those last 15 points. Again, not a bad way of using up those last points on survivability.
Otherwise, no go. Pidgeon Plucker Pendant: Misspelled name, odd item. Tailored lists only really. Luckstone: Reroll a single failed Armor Save. Rampager's Standard: Reroll your charge distance dice if you want. Wailing Banner: Unit causes Terror. Pretty shitty thanks to the massive debuff to Terror in 8th edition. There's better standards for you.
Ranger's Standard: Grants Strider. Ignore dangerous terrain. March your horde wall of death across the map with impunity. A nice choice. Razor Standard: Grants Armor Piercing. Put it on Special choices.
Normally you want to avoid getting stuck in a fight all game, and this'll help improve your chances of winning in all rounds of combat. There's better choices, really if you want movement you should be rolling Lore of Shadow or Light. Leadership 10 will ensure the Black Guard never leave and it's fairly useful for preventing Frenzied units from charging, or if you're going to have a unit outside the General's Inspiring Presence bubble anyway.
Banner of Eternal Flame: Just like most armies, feel free to take this and stick it wherever you want. Gleaming Pennant: One use, re-roll failed Leadership test. Why are you failing Leadership?
Maybe tailored against an undead army, otherwise no. Scarecrow Banner: Causes Fear on Flying enemies. If you were playing a VERY large game and your entire strategy was magic and stalling for magic to work, you might use this. It's decent though overpriced. Feedback Scroll: Instead of a dispel attempt, you can use this one-use item to roll a dice for each power dice used to cast it. Great for a tailored list, and worth considering otherwise to take out an opponent's only caster and let you work the winds unopposed.
He knows all spells in the chosen Lore, and Irresistable Forces on any doubles, ignores a miscast per magic phase, comes with antimagic, and is guaranteed dice in winds with the banner along , but more likely will have 12 and will IF on 3 dice, on average once or twice a phase.
Playing the Dark elves in such situations I wind up with maybe models that get to combat out of multiple units of 40 or more. More Elite units like hydras and ColdOneKnights will be completely eradicated on the first or second turns by magic, helped by bolt throwers.
Bigger blocks of infantry will be Halved, and halved again by spells that cause models to test or be removed, or that kill on an arbitrary Roll, such as Dwellers Below, Final Transmutation etc. High Elves outrange the DE with 30 inch longbows, or are simply capable of beating them Volley to Volley with seaguard. Good luck trying to win at range against high elves with a DE army, maybe if you dont bring anything else.
I'm not saying they can't be beaten by dark elves, what i lement is that in order to beat high elves with dark elves you basicaly have to field an army whose whole purpose is to fight high elves, so you will Rarely if Ever beat them with an All-Comers list, and even then it will be an uphill battle relying more on your enemy failing thier roles, than your army construction or field tactics.
To get even more ammusing the Normal rule in 8th that would have made swordmasters and WL strike on initiative with thier Greatweapons, which would have just been unfair im sure with thier initiative infanry, was Errata'd so the Always strikes last rule and always strikes first rule don't cancel each other out for initiave based striking like they do for every other race, as ASF superceeds it for high elves.
So Dark elves are cheaper? So they get more bang per point cost? The Dark Elves are not so numerous in battle as Persians, and the High Elves are not so rare on the field as Spartans. Fanatics aside, lets see just how many goblin spearmen it would take to bring down 50 ironbreakers, with a well equiped thane on an oath stone. It's that Elite units beat twice thier number of non elites or more, and high elves have the most elite of every unit type especialy with thier ASF change , now with the abiltiy for even thier core units to beat rare units in a melee.
So they lack options for troops? You put Teclis into any high elven army and it becomes an all comers list that should defeat pretty much any army with only average rolling, and little skill required. Without Teclis the Army is still more than capable of playing the same method with extra bolt throwers, or 2 ordinary Mages. Chaos Warriors have better Infantry but will suffer the same losses while walking across the table, and all of thier units can be easily countermesured by the HE, and Chaos will be outnumbered 3 to 1 by the time the high elves strike first and half the number of models left in the Chaos unit again.
Is this Logic Flawed? I have been running scenarios and tests with proxies and multiple volunteers. I see this as being the case but i could be wrong. Some armies can sure give the Elves more trouble than others, my dwarves can still hold thierown, and have enough antimagic to Foil even Teclis occasionaly as even he can be countered when not rolling doubles, or killed with a siege weapon.
I realy don't see many viable options for the Dark Elves against such forces though, not when thier enemy got a game wide rulechange that basicaly hands them a better vesrion of hatred. Basicaly high elves were handed the very best rule of thier worst enemy, for free, and the dark elves got nothing new, but got handed the same nerfs to some of thier more interesting units like Skirmishers and Cav as everyone else, without gaining anything particularly helpful in the Melee.
In 7th ed the HE and DE were fairly even. I play all the armies in warhammer, and love the 8th ed rules on a whole. I was winning most battles against every other army while playing high elves in 7th ED where people said they were outclassed, and in 8th ed, they are just even more Crazy Good.
If anyone asked me for the "what army can I win most games with" army, I'd tell them High Elves if i decided to answer them honestly. This makes me sad because no army should be this good all around, they are strong in any area they wish to use, or all areas, and thier few weaknesses will rarely be an issue, as few armies will survive long enough to exploit them.
Well there are quite few ways to get rid of Teclis in many armies, heck lizardmen alone have two three if you throw in a banehead. The other side of the internet. ShivanAngel wrote: Gotta love Matt Ward and his undercosted for what they do models! Avoid fallacies whenever possible. Columbus, Ohio. High Elves and Dark Elves match up pretty evenly in 8th Edition. High Elves have a better variety of magic to draw from and will outfight Dark Elves in close combat.
Dark Elves are more numerous and have better shooting. They play against each other well, exactly as they should. Jagdmacht , my Imperial Guard Project Log. Gives your Dark Elves a slight edge. And as said, if all else fails, just pummel them with buttloads of Crossbow fire. Mr Mystery wrote: ASF The DE have a few edges over HE A slight one, but one nonetheless.
Second: Our missile troops are better than theirs Pity Hag Graef BG is a waste against every other army out there. And, it's just one unit. Fourth: DE are somewhat cheaper, meaning you should have more bodies. If one manages to strike that careful balance between caution when possible and recklessness when needed, DE do well against HE. My job here is done.
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